Join me with Michael Cooke author of Unpacking God for the 21st Century: A Guide for Growing Your Soul. In this podcast series, "Dare To Live The Life of Jesus", Michael and I explore what it means to be a Christian in the 21st century.
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Transcript:
Chris Templeton 0:00
I am really pleased to open this podcast with Michael cook, the author of unpacking God for the 21st century, a guide for growing your soul. We are in for a real treat. Part of what the book includes is this series of stories. And we're going to focus on the first three of the first five, that talk about what a woman goes through. And, Mike, we are in for a real treat with what you've written. Thank you so much for being here.
Michael Cooke 0:31
Thank you very much, Chris. Girl violence happens, because our economic situation collapsed. And unemployment was high. And so Christians thought to themselves at that point, we got to do something about this. And this is the beginning of going back to x one, when up when people had all things in common, and they're shared all things in common. So the genesis of growth, our growth Island, came out of a tough economic situation, right, what's going to get better. And so Christians united around a single cause, we have to help one another, if we're going to get out of this economic mess, right, we can't be every man for themselves. So at that point in time, they began to be united, regardless of doctrines. So Grove island was formed as a response to the economic situation, which became intolerable. And a sanctuary for Christians to go to around the world.
Chris Templeton 1:40
Well, and the thing that really fascinated me about this piece was at the beginning, it says, this simple rule is to live your life in service to others. And then a couple of paragraphs down at the end, you say, the more they sustained each other, the wealthier they became. And, And to me, that's a huge, huge piece. So contrary to where we are, with consumerism, and secularism, there's, we've lost that connection that when we do things together, we can be so much more isn't that is that kind of the core message of what you're going after? Here?
Michael Cooke 2:19
It is the core message. Because in our, in our culture right now, wealth is either those who have it, and those who do not, and those who do not, is so far behind economically, that they don't have to dig themselves out of a ditch. And the really only way to do that is to look at wealth. And wealth creation is not me versus you. But all of us together, can create wealth. Now, by doing that, we actually lower the cost of doing things. It's like onscale. If more of us are getting together to help each other create wealth, then the skills of economies comes into play, right? Less expensive, to generate wealth when we're all in it together. Right.
Chris Templeton 3:16
So one of the things that I think is really interesting about that, though, is making that shift. And one of the things that you say in the in the book in this section is that regardless of denomination, they came together, how do they How do people do that? How do they find that commonality? And what in your mind, in this process of the naza writes, coming together? How did they figure out how to let go of the differences and focus on the core commonality because it's such so true right now, especially in the United States, where you know, everybody's become tribes that are practically warring?
Michael Cooke 3:59
Let's go back to 2007 2008. Because the genesis of this portion of the book was written during that economic times. And I remember, clearly, we're seeing if the banks had failed, and the banks were allowed to fail without federal bailout, then we would be in that economic situation. So it's a question that what was going on then, is that there's an infusion of capital needed by the feds globally in order to save the banking system. And because they pumped a lot of money into the banking system, it sustained it for now. It put it on life support, right, had no intervention happened. We would be in that economic situation where we would have to say, this is unsustainable. We have to pull together. And so when I was writing that, I was looking at what was a worst case scenario. If we do Come together, if we weren't able to bet, actually, we have not built out of debt, we've just put it off for the for another generation, right, at some point is going to be answered in another generation to say, we can't sustain this debt load. What do we do? So all we've done is kick the ball down the road, and hopefully, another generation, we smarter and wiser to come to the same conclusions. The capitalism isn't working for us this way. We have to reinvent the wheel.
Chris Templeton 5:31
And doesn't this book really speak to that reinvention? I mean, in terms of the naza, writes, coming together, and this idea of finding these core commonalities, and at some level, a sense of the value of working together and helping each other serving each other, changes dramatically what capitalism could be, and really would take it where, where we would want it to be, isn't that right?
Michael Cooke 6:03
It is correct, because I'm looking at the one of the things in that 2007 2008, the housing market collapsed, right, in a big way. And because of the housing market collapse, also, it's the need that for the basic needs, food, shelter, clothing, and transportation, we're gonna have to go back to think about what is important to us. And at some level, we're gonna have to say, is a consumer culture is consumerism, is that important to us, or everybody has a level of understanding their basic needs met. And it's not socialism. But it's a true democracy. We're watching out for each other. Now, in the book, the middle class is totally decimated. So you've only left the rich and the destitute, right? And if you're destitute, and the state has no money to help you, we have to help each other.
Chris Templeton 7:03
And and that is where this shift comes from, then, isn't it? It's this recognition of, Oh, my gosh, we and but I think the other thing that's so important, in what, in what you're saying in this book, is that there's a recognition that also that consumerism doesn't fulfill doesn't have meaning. And that when you move to this model of not even a model, but this way of everybody serving each other, it's almost an explosion of meaning, an explosion of, of spiritual wholeness,
Michael Cooke 7:50
Spiritual awakening, and
Chris Templeton 7:52
awakening and wholeness, though, don't you think? I mean, don't you think...
Michael Cooke 7:55
Exactly, that's, that's where we're going. We all begin to recognize after the 1% movement, the nine 9%, right will begin to recognize that it's unsustainable, we begin to recognize that we're using up the world's resources faster than it can be replenished. So at some point, we're all going to have to come to this reckoning, all the book has done is put it off into the future. But it is not. How would I put it out of sight out of mind, we still have to deal with the issues. Right? Right.
Chris Templeton 8:35
Okay, so let's, let's move on to story number one, which is titled our challenge. And one of the things that I thought was really amazing about this is that in the opening paragraph, you say, we're given life in a world to live out this life, how we live, and what we do with this life is our greatest challenge. We are born with certain gifts and talents, we must take this inheritance and use it to make a better life for all. It takes courage to break out of our cultural inheritance, and develop a faith that is not afraid of pushing the envelope. I think it's such an interesting opening for the story that's about to begin, isn't it?
Michael Cooke 9:27
Yes, it is. Because that's a is our challenge. We're just thrown on a planet. And whatever is going on in that planet at that time. We have to deal with it. So a newborn baby's gonna have to deal with climate change issues. A person who's near end of life is still going to have issues to deal with. And the complexities of this planet is great. But we have to pull together in order to make it work. Not an individual identity only now, or it's Mike country against your country. What's going on right now is calling for our countries to be united to solve global issues. And that's our real biggest challenge, and use the gifts and talents we've had to solve problems.
Chris Templeton 10:21
So the story opens up that a woman is at the steps of a courthouse, and she's pleading for the life of her son who's been convicted of as best we can tell, at this point, murder, isn't that correct? That is correct. And so she goes to the court every day. And then at the end of this first story, she's visited by Elijah, the prophet of God, and who is sent to comfort her. And he says, women continue to show mercy for those who mock you and despise you Because obviously, she's been mocked and despised event, she's the mother of this supposed murder and, and you will become for you will be comforted, continue to trust in your son's goodness, this her son who's in jail, continue to believe that God is good, impartial, fair, and just, the woman goes to sleep that night comforted that God has heard her plea to spare her son's life. So, talk a little bit about Elijah and his role in this.
Michael Cooke 11:32
Okay, English is presented as the forerunner of Jesus and speaks off the truth of the gospels are we go back to what the original teachings were. And Elijah has always been that Prophet that's assigned to bring what you call the church back in alignment. So when Elijah appears on the scene, we know from our historical records, that one day Jesus will return or there will be a second coming, is heralding the Second Coming. But he's also heralding way of life, as it should be lived on this planet.
Chris Templeton 12:12
It just gets more and more clear as you go through each of these stories. The next morning, she does not go to the courthouse because of the comfort that she's had from Elijah, and arrived. And she goes and does work and going home, the prosecutor of her son asks her why she wasn't at the courthouse. And her reply is, my son will not die He lives. The prosecutor thinks that odd she says these words for her son had been executed at 2pm. Last night, it was the same time that Elijah was sent to comfort her. How do we put together that what seems like a juxtaposition of the son dying, and her being comforted at the same time.
Michael Cooke 13:01
Okay, let's go back to something I'm going to share with you, we do not die. We transfer we what we goes from phase one of life, to phase two of life. Now we look at the resurrection of Jesus. And that resurrection of Jesus, Jesus paired multiple times to many people, including behind locked doors. If we do believe in the resurrection, then we also have to believe that our life has value. And that we enter a new phase or new evolution of life, as Jesus went through that phase on his resurrection morning. And that is the hope of Christianity. It's not that we die physical death, is that we resurrect into a new life. And this speaks to the resurrection of a new life, not the physical remains, that goes into the ground.
Chris Templeton 13:59
Right. The other thing that I think is so interesting, because this is one of the biggest arguments against a good God. And really, I mean, there's so many ways that this is so important, Michael, in the sense that, you know, here's a woman who's being told by the forerunner of Jesus at what she needs to do is to show mercy for those who mock you and despise you for you will be comforted. How do we help people to understand that in this story that's so kind of juxtaposed where Elijah is telling this woman that what she needs to do is to find forgiveness for these people. At the same time her son's dying, help people to understand how that is about a good God because I believe that it is But I think a lot of people aren't clear about how you can say, I had somebody say it to me, just recently, how can this be a good God? If if kids are dying, or, you know, somebody's being put to death unjustly? How do you help to square that?
Michael Cooke 15:20
Because the first part of that question, life does not originate with us. And therefore whatever we go through here, isn't permanent. It's transitory, whatever we live on this planet, it's not who we are, is what we're experiencing, it may be a negative experience. But if I look at a parent who has a child, a child may put their hands on the stove, not realizing the kettle is hot, they get burned. That's not a bad parent, the good parent comes and then comfort a child, right. And that's exactly what it is. If we're looking at God as that good parent, it doesn't mean that we're not going to have bad experiences. It doesn't mean that, yes, I accidentally touched a kettle, and I got burnt or actually dropped something, and I broke my foot for dropping stuff to my foot. It doesn't mean that we will have accidents, it doesn't mean that we won't have pain. But it means that we somebody is there to comfort us, and to help us through that pain process, and lessen the anxiety and the pain that is inflicted upon us.
Chris Templeton 16:37
But I also think that one of the things that you're pointing out here in this chapter in this story, one, and also in further stories, is that there's something deeper that we can connect with, to help us through this in the moment that we're going through. It isn't that isn't that a part of this is that recognition that there's something deeper we can draw on to help to sustain ourselves through the tough times.
Michael Cooke 17:06
It is it's our faith. And that faith in itself is not subjective. But its objective. It's not because I say I have faith, but really, a living faith will dull the pain of living. Real and living faith is like a healing. It's it heals. And no matter how painful situation is, the living space that you have, actually helps you heal and get over the hurt, get over the pain. And helps you forget, it helps you forget over time, the pain and suffering and see the joy and see the wisdom and what happens sometimes.
Chris Templeton 17:52
And I think that's the thing that I look at is is you know, it's like you said earlier, in regards to a parent and a child, you know, there is this kind of underlying narrative, that life should be good and easy. And and if we just do it, all right, everything will be okay. And I think that that's really not what our Creator intended, was it It wasn't that you should just come to this planet and everything should be great. And that there should be experiences that help you to find meaning.
Michael Cooke 18:37
And that is it. Because if we look at the harshness of winter, and we say winter is one of the worst seasons ever on this planet, right, but somewhere along the line on the other hemisphere, they're having their summer. And this is this is the worst summer ever. So. So through it all. There is a balance, and some of us are adapted to winter and love it. Some of us hate summer. And regardless of what you think, you know, like it's 90 degrees outside, I'd rather be in an air conditioned building, sitting around and doing nothing. So we have to adapt to our environment, and make the environment work for us. The planet isn't going to change, we have to change with the planets.
Chris Templeton 19:23
It seems like one of the things that also happens is as we go through the seasons of life over and over again, that even in the bad see the quote unquote bad seasons, we can find beauty when we know that spring and summer around the corner we can find a new type of beauty. And I see I see so much of what you're talking about is finding ways to come to peace with adversity and find the value and the beauty within it. And wouldn't that what you would Wouldn't that Be the one of the reasons that you would want to come to this planet. And, and go through this experience is to have greater meaning, which I don't think you can find. If everything if I come to the planet and everything's just fine all the time.
Michael Cooke 20:14
I agree with you, Chris, because one of the challenges is the experience that we have is that we're adding our spiritual dimension to that experience. So if I look at it, a child is born. But it's the quality of spiritual experience, not the quantity of experience at that that's important. So if I look into first world, in a third world country, you may find that the experiences and quality of spiritual experience may be identical, but not the quantity of it. And so from God's perspective, it's the quality of worship. It's a quality of time, not so much, how much time you spend, but do you spend it in quality?
Chris Templeton 21:05
You know, one of the questions that just comes to mind, and maybe a little bit off topic, but when we think of worship, I think of I think a lot of people think that that means subordinate, superior, like I'm subordinate to God, and I'm thanking Him. And I think there's an element of that. But isn't it also worship about recognizing that I am a part of God? Is that Wait, is that a good way to put it?
Michael Cooke 21:34
It's called gratitude. Worship is also being thankful for what you have, not what you don't have. Yeah. And so we can worship and honor God. Just by looking out the window and says, I thank you for being alive on this planet. I thank you for the sunrise. I just thank you for the beautiful ocean breeze, or I thank you for hearing the waves. It's an appreciation of life itself.
Chris Templeton 21:59
Yes. And, and that's what I'm getting at. I think that a lot of people think that oh, you know, Christianity or other religions, you're making yourself subordinate. And while you may be in some ways, but there's also worship doesn't include that appreciation for life, doesn't it and finding the meaning in it? And the little moments?
Michael Cooke 22:23
It true. Now, if we go back to the story about that widow. In the second story, Elijah told her to get busy with her passion. Yes. Okay. And, and this is where, what what once person's passion is, it really takes you beyond yourself. Because she did, she went outside the box in the story. And she found her passion. And she began living her passion, and her dream.
Chris Templeton 22:56
And can I just read the opening paragraph of your true passion? Yes, passion is an emotion that develops because of a deep desire to do something. This, to me is the most important part. It does not matter what you do or become. But passion always leads to action. Passion destroys fear, and other obstacles that stand in your way. Any passion that is lived out? can serve us. And yes, and every and those around us candidate.
Michael Cooke 23:33
Yes, yes, it does. Not. That's the recognition. I think what Eliza has done for her is to awaken that latent ability, that she had to say now that his son's past, he's no longer in this world. What do you do, you're gonna sit there and mourn everyday about your son are going to be busy living life. And I think when that part of the story came, it was about taking defeat, turning it around, and says, no matter what happens, I have to move on. I have to live life, and I must continue to grow. And that's exactly what she did. Despite losing her son and other members of her family. She began to find a way to relive, again, to have regeneration.
Chris Templeton 24:19
And what's really, really wonderful about this part of the story is that where does she What does she do Is she begins to bake cookies, because that's something that she's always loved is baking, something she's been passionate about, and then she hands them out of all places, the same place where she experienced some of the worst adversity of her life, her son, begging for her son's life. At the steps of the courthouse now, she's back at the steps of the courthouse and handing out cookies for free. It's like and I think people go oh my god, I can't could never ever do that. I don't I couldn't. I think people think, Mike that they couldn't find that place within them. And yet it's in every one of us, isn't it?
Michael Cooke 25:09
It is. And that's called turning the other cheek. If you really want to understand the biblical terms, it's turning the other cheek. And that's exactly what she did. Because I think we left out of the story, one, that she was a cleaning lady for the prosecutor who sent her son to death. Oh, right, right. And if that's not turning the other cheek, then why it is, it's a positive thing. You're showing a way to live your life in a godly way. Regardless of how much pain is inflicted on you, you turn the other cheek. And it's a positive thing that will teach others lesson in life.
Chris Templeton 25:48
So she, she grows in what she's done, a child brings a piggy bank and puts it in front of her and the widow who's never priced the cookies, which is just amazing thing, all of a sudden finds that people are giving her change, and then that grows and grows. And she's able to buy more ovens and buy a house. And at the end of this story, too. She says, Thank you, our Creator, Father, for allowing my dream to come true. Ever since I was a child, I wanted to own a bakery. And now my soul is comforted because I'm living my dream. And it's so simple.
Michael Cooke 26:37
It is but what is fearful about it is taking that risk, our comfort zone, and taking a risk that she's gonna do something with no personal benefit to her. She didn't know where the next dollar was going to come from. And is taking that risk to rely on God for your sustenance. And then it happens three months later, it happens. But the beauty about the story is the second piggy bank that she received from the same child a year later, right. And she lived in community service. And she donated all the money that went in there into community service.
Chris Templeton 27:18
And the thing that is so interesting is that even though you say it didn't serve her, you know, didn't wasn't anything tangible for her. How full was her soul becoming as a result of doing this?
Michael Cooke 27:37
Immense she was growing her soul beyond what we would recognize because it is not what it is to be human. It is what it is to be divine. And so she was living a divine life.
Chris Templeton 27:51
So in story three, titled staying the course, it's been a few years since she was comforted by Elijah. And she began to reflect on the challenges she had to overcome during these years, such as being ridiculed by the public arrested for not having a vendor's permit accused of not paying taxes, labeled a mental case, advised to cease and desist and presented with court injunctions from her competitors, charging that she did not price what she had made the woman momentarily pause from reflection and said thank you, creator, Father, for sustaining me talk about the importance of that.
Michael Cooke 28:34
What that is, is, whenever we start something, whenever we start living our passion, when we start living our dream, we're going to have opposition. We're going to have opposition, because if opposition is natural, we're going to have challenges. We're enough people who's lacking like what we're going to say or do, we're going to have people who are going to ridiculous, because it's out of what they understand. And so through all of this, she had to make a determination that I'm going to continue with my dream, I'm going to continue my passion, I'm going to stay the course simply because this is what I must do. And it becomes an inward journey. It becomes an the passion itself now is living itself and taking a life of its own. And so as she begins now, to get past these hurdles, one by one, and yes, if you think he can open a business and your competition is charging zero, and they're charging $5 they're gonna they're gonna come after you for charging zero. gonna call the competition board on you. But she stayed the course because that's what our inner voice told her to do is the right thing for her to do.
Chris Templeton 29:49
And there's also some element of forgiveness. I mean, not even some element there's a huge element of forgiveness in this portion isn't there from her being able to To turn the other cheek and, and continue on and to stay the course.
Michael Cooke 30:05
Yes, there is. Because I've often heard people says, I can't do this. And I can't do that, because I've tried once and I failed, I tried twice, and I failed. And so they give up in trying. And the real passionate person about what they're doing, does not give up. Because of the obstacles in their way. They may walk, they may find another route, they may walk another route. Because the road that they're on is unsustainable, right? They're not gonna give up on their dreams.
Chris Templeton 30:40
After she has been reflecting alijah, appears to her again, and says, My dear woman rejoice for your prayers of things have been heard. Our creator father wanted you to know that because you had stayed the course tomorrow, when you rise, a buyer will be at your door to place a very large order of bread and other baked goods, give this buyer everything you have. And she says, stay the course I've done nothing more than what you asked to talk about. How that in this whole piece How? What she perceived is doing what she's told, and, and his perception of life, his statement of her staying the course how do the two differ? I mean, at some level, she thinks she's just doing what she needs to do. But there's something deeper going on, isn't there?
Michael Cooke 31:36
Yes, sorry, it's gonna go back to Abraham, and Isaac. And it is difficult at times when to hear a call. And you're going to follow the call. And it is difficult even in Moses time or whatever spiritual leader that you have. Hearing that call means, in itself, there might be pain, there might be suffering. But staying that course, is an inner voice, you're here to say, I'm going to be okay. is going to be well. And I forgot the name of the author wrote it as well with my soul, or that song. But it's the same idea. No matter what happens, I feel an inner peace that I can continue on.
Chris Templeton 32:37
And that inner peace comes from doing things like turning the other cheek and forgiving others and and find and being in touch with that passion that she's acting out in the story. Isn't that right?
Michael Cooke 32:51
Yes, it is. Now, I think her greatest challenge in Elijah worse is that this stage, she doesn't know who the buyer is. All she knows is a religious peer turn says you know what? Somebody's going to knock on your door tomorrow. Give them everything. Now, if somebody knocks on my door and says, and I get this message to say give him everything that you have, the normal reaction would be I don't have anything to give. Because if I give him everything, what's left over for me? Right. And I let you go on to the next part of the story. Because the normal human reaction would be I can't give everything I have.
Chris Templeton 33:36
Yeah, and and just before I do that, though, let me just read one piece that Elijah says to her, he says you stood firm and continued on, you never avoided a challenge, but took it for what it was a challenge. Nothing more, nothing less successes, an attitude of training and focus. a mind that is so trained will always realize its masters dreams. And so now somebody walks in, and she realizes that it's the judge who convicted her son, and he is there to buy everything that she has in the store. And instead she says you may have this I won't take your money. And he says to her, I came to test your faith and resolve. And she said faith and resolve. He said I wanted to see if you would have found some reason in your heart for not selling to me today. And the widow replies and this is so huge. Forgive me, my good man. All who enter through these doors Friend or Foe are treated equally. I am not your judge and forgiveness remembers not the past It's, I think, Mike, this is something that people want so badly to be able to accomplish and feel so almost hogtied that they don't have the ability to do it. But it's really about finding that faith through the passion, isn't it?
Michael Cooke 35:22
It is. But it's also letting go of ego. Letting go of self Yep. Because if we let go of self, then and see everybody's equal, we're not seeing that they cause pain in the past. We're seeing them for who they are, that they make, that they also make mistakes, some willing to forgive their mistakes, from where they're coming from.
Chris Templeton 35:50
And isn't that forgiveness also about a recognition that they have the same ability, they have the same connection to their Creator, if they choose to recognize it, and that there's a recognition that, as somebody who is, who has faith can see the ability of anybody else to have the same faith and the same connection?
Michael Cooke 36:15
Yes. And I, I think with the, with the story here, the expression, if you could read the expression, her face, it would be I've already forgiven you.
Chris Templeton 36:29
The judge said, I had closed my eyes and stopped my ears from hearing, you're pleased to save your son's lives, I had firmly believed that no possibility of goodness would have come from allowing your son to live. And he goes on and says you hold no grudges and have already forgiven me you have not allowed the past to stand in your way. Good Woman I am indebted to you. To which she replies, good man, you are indebted to your Creator, Father, not me. I just I don't know where to go from there, Mike. It's so it's so powerful to just sit and think about her recognition of this man's connection to his creator, even though he doesn't recognize it, she sees it clearly doesn't she?
Michael Cooke 37:28
She does. But she also sees and knows what he's guilty off already. She knew because she was on the steps of the courthouse for three years. So she knew that even after he left repeal, she knew he wasn't going to let her son live. And it's the ability to forgive in a great way. And that's not just to forgive a little. It's to forgive a lot. And she could have had that and says, You know what, I'm not giving you anything today, because of what the pain you caused my son and the pain you caused me. But she rose above it, and treated him no different. Because in everyone standing before everyone else, there's God in him to.
Chris Templeton 38:22
The man broke down in tears and began to put the bread back on the shelf. The woman said it is yours to do with as you wish. Together they distributed the bakery items to the poor. The judge said from my youth, I always wanted to be a baker, she replied all these years, I've been hoping for a business partner, he wrote the with the widow a check for 50% of the business. I don't know what to say, Mike. I mean, it's just I think that saying anything at some level just detracts from the power of the message, doesn't it?
Michael Cooke 39:00
It does. It does. Because the real message is we don't know what God has planned for us. So let's go with the flow.
Chris Templeton 39:08
Yeah, yep. Go with the flow. I love that. And and you know that also, I don't know if you're familiar with the the idea of flow state that this is kind of when you're in the groove and time passes quickly, or you're a runner and you hit the wall and then all of a sudden nothing bothers you. I think of that as being the same thing that all of a sudden whether you recognize what it is or not our inner self, our our inner being God has kind of taken over and said I got you from here. Isn't that isn't there truth to that?
Michael Cooke 39:43
There is there is and is to recognize that the judge also has a creative with them standing beside him, right. And there's also this Bible teaching If you if you saw somebody hungry and thirsty, and you fed them, consider that you've also fed me. And this is the time of year with these ads come out at Christmas time to say, You know what? Yeah, consider the poor, because that poor person, Jesus is still with them. And as you feed them, you also feed in Jesus.
Chris Templeton 40:26
And and Isn't that an absolutely fascinating way to look at the relationship between man on the planet and your Creator? That that by being selfless and serving others, you're serving God? And yourself? Right?
Michael Cooke 40:43
And the whole point is, we are
Chris Templeton 40:46
How did we get so backwards? Mike, how did we get so off the the basics of the message?
Michael Cooke 40:52
You know what, we get off the message, but God always sends prophets and teachers to bring us back to the message, we may get off the message for a generation or two, but somebody will be sent to get us back on that message. And I believe this book is getting us back on that message.
Chris Templeton 41:09
I absolutely can tell you that this book gets us back on that message. And I'm so grateful and appreciative to see Christianity back to its roots from my perspective, especially when we compare it to kind of the judgment that's out there. And and I just think this is a way that connects us to meaning. And having a life that means something in a much, much deeper way than then some of the newer versions of Christianity have led us to. Okay, let's do this. Let's wrap up. And let's do stories, four and five on our next podcast, because people are going to be in for a real treat, about how this story all comes together. And I encourage everybody to go get this book unpacking God for the 21st century by Michael cook, a guide for growing your soul, this in just these three of five stories that are interlaced within this book. reading them over and really contemplating what the deep meaning is to these stories and the importance of adversity, to creating meaning. And finding a way to frame up that adversity in a way that serves us. Man, this is huge. Mike, this is huge, and I'm so appreciative for this book and what you've done.
Michael Cooke 42:52
Thank you, Chris.
Chris Templeton 42:54
Okay, we'regonna wrap up, I just want to remind everybody one more time, go to amazon.com. Search for Michael cook, unpacking God, and his book will come right up and you're in for, in my mind, it's really revelatory, in terms of just looking at things in what I believe the perspective of Jesus was. And it'll help anybody to understand what Michaels talking about when he talks about living the life of Jesus. Michael, thank you so much. Thank you so much.
Michael Cooke 43:30
Thank you, Chris.